Audioholic Media

Sitting at the venue in Atlanta and waiting for the show to start, I was forced into hearing some minors talk about random nothings, like the parties they attend or the Roofie that a friend slipped to someone. I started to feel old. Within the garbage I was filtering out, I heard one fan declare: “His new single, is like, so anti-war. Yeah, he’s so voting for Obama.” I cringed a little and realized that a lot of people were indeed missing the message to this talented musician’s music and simply writing it off as political.
I had to clear it up.
I had to see what Kevin Devine thought about that lost message.

I want to preface this interview by saying that it was not a conventional interview at all. It was like group therapy. Basically, this interview may or may not read as a one-act play. Kevin Devine, a friend of his, a member from The Goddamn Band, and guest appearances by groupies and Matt Pryor all come into play this night. I’m not saying Matt Pryor is a groupie. I’m just saying that Kevin Devine wrecked his van.

In a moment of social awkwardness, I forgot to turn on my recorder during the first question and a half. Just know that The Goddamn Band is an intimidating list of people who make up Kevin Devine’s band. It’s a list of musicians who have played with him throughout his musical career and have played a major role in his musical progression from album to album.

Audioholic Media: I’m sure that opening for a band such as Brand New was a very big move for you. How were those connections made?

Kevin Devine: I’ve just known them for a really long time. I’ve known Jesse [Lacey] particularly, for like nine years. We’ve done a lot of shows together, from really little shows in 1999 to kind of like a church backyard where there’s 50 people to obviously them getting a lot more popular than that. They asked if I wanted to go on tour and I said yes.

AM: What about the variation in music styles between you and Brand New, were you at all worried about fan reaction when touring?

KD: I did a short tour with them where I was playing acoustically in 2004 where there were 2,000 seat rooms where no one gave a shit at all. It was like maybe 300 people were really listening and 1,700 people wouldn’t even know someone was playing. So I was prepared for it a little bit. I felt like I had a little bit more of a fighting chance with [The Goddamn Band] with me.

I really like Brand New. Their last record in specific, I love. I know what we do is definitely not quite as “big rock music”. I knew it was going to be hard. There were some nights where you knew it connected [to the fans] and others where it didn’t.

AM: In terms of touring, you would say that was your biggest gig, right?

KD: As far as touring consistently every night, then yes. I would say it was.

AM: How did you prepare for the tour, in terms of going from smaller venues to bigger ones such as that tour?

KD: I have no idea. [Matt Pryor enters the room nonchalantly] Would you like to be part of the interview?

Matt Pryor: No, it’s a big ass group interview. That’s just weird.

KD: Come on. We’re taping this for a really cool television show that doesn’t even exist.

AM: Yeah, Like Oprah.

[Matt Pryor exits the room]

[Editor's Note: After getting back on track we come to the realization that the last question was not answered.
This is how Kevin Devine prepared for a bigger gig, such as the Brand New tour:]

KD: I just play the same.
I don’t know how to play different for 2,500 people and enter the stage clapping my hands and yelling, “Throw your hands up in the air!” [throws hands up in the air] With the band, it’s a more varied approach, but when I’m alone with that many people, it does get a little hard to demand attention. So, yeah, I do play different for a large group of people, it’s just something I don’t really know how to do. I just do it.

AM: We’ve spotted demo releases on sites such as the infamous MySpace. You’ve also been switching tracks on your home player very regularly with new stuff. Having that network available for fans, did that have any play in picking songs for future albums or were you just giving us a taste of what’s to come?

KD: That was just a way to keep everyone updated.
I haven’t put a record out in so long and somehow was lucky enough to establish a fan base without any support from a label. Really, because of bands such as Brand New, Manchester [Orchestra], and also this tour I did with a band called Chin Up Chin Up. All these tours that I got to do, I did with no standard support from a record label. It helped me find an audience that I hadn’t found before. And, so I wanted to let these people that were coming [to MySpace], and to people whom had been there prior, to know that I wasn’t just touring on a record for three years with nothing being written. I wanted people to know that there was still stuff [being written]. Most of the songs that we’ve put up there are from the new album. We’ve recorded fifteen songs for the record and I think we’ve put twelve of them up as demos over the course of a year.

AM: Being an independent musician, how do you feel about the shift in the music industry with websites such as MySpace, YouTube, and iTunes helping out smaller artists?

KD: I think it’s great for smaller musicians. I think that the power of the shift has to do with the economy of it. I’m never going to see a royalty statement from a record label. I never have, and I probably never will because I don’t sell hundreds and thousands of records. I’d be stoked as shit if I started selling hundreds and thousands of records, but I’m not going to bank on it.
But I can tour and still make a living, and that’s how I’m a “working musician”, from doing this two hundred days a year. Which is stable for now, but maybe not when I’m thirty-five years old.

Things like iTunes and Myspace enable you. I can go on tour and do nothing to promote it but put it on MySpace and there will be people. Whether it’s 70 people, or a place like New York where there’s five or six hundred there, just from looking on your website.
Or they can buy your shit on iTunes and listen to a thirty-second snippet of it, and make that snap judgment that you make, you know?

I think the thing with the Internet that’s changed things is— well, now you have bands like Bright Eyes, Arcade Fire, Deathcab, and The Shins which are bands who came from indie rock and sell a lot of records, but you never hear them on the radio, or see them on MTV, but the following of these bands is massive.

Even with Brand New, they had a song that got played on the radio just a little bit, but they still sold around 300,000 records or something like that. That could never happen when Pavement was around. Pavement was a huge indie rock band, but they sold 70,000 copies of their album. You could make the argument, in terms of scope, but when Pavement was around, they were written about in The Times. The college radio kids, the alternative culture, and even the press all loved them, but there just wasn’t as big a market back then.

[Someone at random asks if that’s considered “selling out”.]

KD: I don’t think a band like Pavement [sold out]. Certainly not! What I think is selling out is if you’re in a band that sounds like The Replacements and you get signed to a label, whether it be major or indie, and you know right then and there that— well, if you change what you do to get people to like you, and it’s self-conscious to change your image.

[Group discussion about common bands that are considered to be “selling out” come into play, and we all came to the conclusion that those bands were formatted to be what they were.]

KD: In that instance, I don’t even think that I would say bands like those were “selling out”. That should be viewed the same way like Nsync is viewed.

[Random girl laughs…hard.]

KD: No, I mean that they’re like a product.

AM: Totally. That’s not “selling out.” That’s just their personal agenda in their music

KD: And that’s okay. What I think the thing that needs to be teased out of that is— Matt [Pryor] played with The Get Up Kids, and I saw them when I was around fifteen at a VFW Hall with all hardcore bands.
That has nothing to do with those bands, but when it’s pitched to you like it does, that’s the problem– if there really is a problem. I mean, there’s fucking real problems in the world and that’s not really one of them.

AM: Songs like “The Burning City Smoking” and “Heaven Bound & Glory Be” are extremely witty songs—

KD: Thank you.

AM: You’re welcome.
These songs could easily be the theme songs to classes like Political Science and Sociology 101—

[Group laughter]

AM: How do you feel about the people who do label you as a political musician?

KD: I think it’s fine. I don’t really believe that the songs are political. I think that all the songs I write are observational. Whether they’re personally observational, or they’re about relationships, stories I make up, people I meet… or they’re about the world— I just wouldn’t call them political songs. I think political songs take a stance that’s clear. One of the problems that I have about the songs I write that do come off that way is that they’re not songs that are telling you to go vote for Barack Obama or about platform initiatives that I think should be different.
They’re just songs, really, where someone looks around and is like, “Holy shit. Things are crazy.”

Phil Ochs wrote political songs. Those were protest songs. I wouldn’t play my songs at a Union meeting, because people would be like, “That’s cool, but what do you want us to do?” I think it speaks to the lack of good political songwriting when someone like me gets called a political songwriter.

AM: Definitely. I feel like the bigger picture gets lost in your music to people who aren’t as focused, because “viewing humanity” seems to be the bigger picture around your songs and just your music in general.

KD: I think it’s cool that you think that, because that’s what I think, too.

AM: Do you feel like that message gets lost?

KD: Yeah. I don’t think it’s political to say that some people get fucked. I don’t think it’s political to say that the actions of The First World directly affect the way the people in The Third World live their lives. Just like I don’t think it’s political to talk about Global Warming. To me, it’s not a fucking political issue that by 2050 there won’t be an Antarctica. That’s not politics, that’s science and reading. I just think we’ve made things political that are not political.

Things like how the world works and that there’s enough money to build golf courses everywhere, but kids in Africa don’t have fucking blankets, and they have AIDS, and they don’t have food. I don’t think that there are political solutions to that.
It’s just looking at the situation and being like, “That’s fucking crazy.” That, to me, is what [my music] is about.

The biggest privileges I’ve had in making music— and not to sound in anyway pontificating, or anything like that— I’ve talked to soldiers– who I would expect would want to beat me up in the bathroom of the club– and come up to me and tell me that those songs have meant a lot to them, whether they vote Republican or Democrat. I really hope that answers your question and I don’t sound like an asshole.

AM: No. That actually clears a lot of things up. It’s apparent that you are aware of really important issues in the world. Is there ever a personal line that is drawn where you tell yourself, “No, I can’t talk about that?”

KD: No.

AM: Good.

KD: I don’t think anyone really gives a shit. They’re just songs. No one’s going to throw a Molotov cocktail through City Hall at random because I said something about it.

AM: True. You also have an extensive library of music. How do you even start to put together a set list?

KD: When I play alone, I kind of just play whatever comes to mind. Songs like “You’ll Only End Up Joining Them” and “Damned Old Dad” are songs I like a lot. So, when I’m on stage, I’m like, “Oh, I’ll play that one.” If someone comes to see me twenty times, they’ll probably hear those two songs nineteen times.
When Put Your Ghost to Rest came out, I played that record a lot because I liked those songs a lot. Now, my head is really involved with the new record. I’m just trying to do an even mix of the last three records.

AM: Geographically speaking, do you think that where you play has any leeway on what you play?

KD: Sometimes it’s weird. In Germany, people loved that first record. I don’t know why. I went there a lot before I toured in America and in 2003 and 2004 I did a lot of tours there. I did shows with Dashboard Confessional, so that probably helped, because he was doing quite well.

Random Girl: You toured with Dashboard Confessional?

KD: Just a little short thing, like a week. [A week can make a big difference] especially when you’re playing in front of a lot people.

AM: New York seems to play a role in your music. Is it something that you’re just reminiscent of or is it something you’re inspired by?

KD: That’s cool that you think that. I always think I’m the least New York New York artist. I don’t feel like I’m part of that whole scene that much.
I guess the thing that comes from living in New York is that there is no shortage of people watching available to you in New York. I guess your mind wanders when you see people doing all these things, and you start to make up stories about them, and a lot of the songs might come from that tendency to let your mind wander with peoples’ lives a little bit.

AM: How would you describe your music to someone who has never heard your stuff before?

KD: Black

[Gets up and heads for the door, leaving the whole group in a very awkward situation
Group laughter. Real laughter. Not the awkward kind.
He sits back down.]

KD: Just songs. Some of them are rock songs. Some of them are folk songs. Some of them come from the punk rock scene. Even though I don’t write punk rock music, that spirit is probably still in it somewhere.

AM: Finally, who should coach The Knicks?

KD: I wish Jeff Van Gundy would come back. I’ll tell you a quick story about Jeff Van Gundy and my father. I went to a Mets playoff game in 1999 when Jeff Van Gundy coached The Knicks to the finals and it was a Cinderella run. They shouldn’t have been there. It was a really big deal. Jeff Van Gundy was like five foot seven and wore crumpled suits that looked like they belonged to his dad, and he looked like he should have no business in the basketball world at all.

So, he came out to throw out the first pitch, and 55,000 fans stood up in unison and were freaking out. Because everyone loves The Knicks, whether you like The Mets or The Yankees, you love The Knicks and New York.

So, everyone’s freaking out and I was a little drunk and I started crying.

Random Girl: Awwwww.

KD: No, it’s not “awww”. My father is like a man. He’s like, 6”3, 300 pounds and an Irish Brooklyn cop, you know? And was like, “Are you crying?”

And I was like, [pretends to cry] “No.” He asked me if I was crying about Jeff Van Gundy and I told him, “Yeah.”

And then he says, “Is there something radically wrong with you?”

[Group laughter]

I just told him that, [pretends to cry] “his run to the finals was so unprecedented.”
Then he says, “You’re a lot different than me, but alright.”

It was born from real feeling. So, yes, Jeff Van Gundy should coach The Knicks.